As a thought experiment, ponder this question. "To create my ideal form of government, exactly who do I have to kill?"
To the Founding Fathers, the answer was "enough British Soldiers to win our Independence."
To Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, it was "anyone who stands in my way." To Abraham Lincoln it was "as many as it takes to preserve the Union."
To many here in our own society who believe in a benevolent one world government run by the bestest wisest scientieist politicians ever it is "anyone who doesn't buy our bullshit about global warming." The calls for "re-education camps" and mass killings have already started, and if enough people tell the Big Lie long enough they'll get the sheep to believe it. Four legs good, two legs better. We have always been at war with....
It is an interesting thing to ponder, the killing of other human beings purely for ideological reasons. The other side, the statists and anti-liberty thugs all have their excuses. Traitor to the Revolution, bourgeoisie, Christ Killing Jews, whatever the label there have been enough people who have bought into those labels to literally murder millions of people who spoke the same language as their executioners.
Our Founding Fathers shot and killed men who spoke their language, were born in the same area, and kept on killing them with the help of those who spoke a different language, all because of political ideology.
It was easier in WWI when the opponent spoke German, and easy again in WWII with the Germans and Japanese. During the Cold War it was simple to hate the Godless Communists.
But the enemy of freedom speaks your language, looks like you, and may even share the same blood. People often forget that our "Revolutionary War" was nothing more than a Civil War that succeeded from our point of view.
So, who would you kill? Would your ideal government be worth it?
About Me
- AM
- Raised by conservative Christian parents, enlisted in the Army at 18, used the GI Bill to finish college, and I'm back in the Army. Along the way I've encountered a huge cast of characters, some I got into trouble with, some that passed on skills that have helped me on my life journey.
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24 comments:
Well said and posted.
Great post, Yes I would.
Ideological reasons indeed, but then you said, "The other side, the statists and anti-liberty thugs all have their excuses."
The enemy is easy to kill if you realize they want nothing more than to enslave you. They wish to live as parasites sucking the life from you while demanding you sustain them. They demand your life of you and call you "immoral" if you refuse. Their morality is the morality of ticks and the leeches. They are crooks and gangsters. Once they decide deadly force is required to keep you enslaved, and your last taboo is shed, killing them in big bloody batches and sweeping their stinking filthy remains into ditches will be simple, sensible, logical and moral.
The thought is almost too much for the mind. I guess I'm still more reactionary than tactically pro active.
My ultimate gov't is....me.
How could it be any other way?
I have never understood the concept of wanting someone else to rule over me or represent me as I am quite capable of doing that myself.
Therefore anyone that would attempt to stop me from living my life as I see fit is my enemy, including those that are ignorant of the long range aspects of their actions, ie. voters.
I'm not interested in other people's opinions about the collective or society or the country or the children or anything else, I am only interested in me and the only life I will ever own.
Hummm. Let me see. Lenin & Stalin killed 20+ million for their Ideal (I wonder if Tzar Nicholas has had enough time to rethink his magnanimous decision to only 'exile' his communist traitors?), Mao killed. . .I don't know but alot. . .to create the perfect Society. But we all know with certitude the Hitler killed 6 million trying to create his Ideal. I wrestle the question of How Many almost every day. And, I know that Team Freedom(both individually and collectively)does not have enough bullets to do a thorough purge. Team Freedom will have to establish the same apparatchik as have our despotic opponents' regime in order to deal with the True Believers who are beyond reform in order to "save" our revolution from anti-revolutionary forces. For the True Believer,"Work will not set THEM (or their minds) Free." This is the problem with Honorable men - we cannot Fathom the mind of evil: it has no problem racking up a body count to ensure its goals. We, as honorable men, think that evil minds can be reformed or rehabilitated - they can't/won't. Only by looking at reality through the hard facts of history will we come to the understanding that, for a time, we will need men of steel (Our Col. Kurtzs) who are willing to do what must be done (grizzle work, indeed) to ensure that the 'problem' will not resurface and need to be purged again in only 30 or 40 years hence. The Communist seem to have no problem finding willing executioners (Katyn Forest, the Soviet Gulags, the Ukrainian Holodor, the Killing Field of China and Cambodia). Where do communists find so many men so eager and willing to pull the trigger to enforce their Ideas? I suggest that these willing executioners have minds corrupted by resentment (Revisit your College Nietzsche philosophy text). We will need men with minds resolved with Honor - that it will never happen again - if we just have the resolve to pull the trigger. The Reds called this 'wet work,' because their boots were wet from standing ankle deep in the blood of their victims. Likewise, we must look at our purge as doing God's work: Sending evil men's minds/souls to a final judgement before they can in turn execute freedom - again.
Reexamine Kurtz's monologue in light of what you know in your heart must be done - His thoughts of resolve are meant to be aborent to the mind of Decent men. But, as I have gotten older and wiser, I see the truth in Kurtz's words. Steel you heart, Patriot. There is a lot of Wet Work to accomplish between now and victory. The enemy may have to flee the field and seemingly go home with his tail between his legs, but only to turn around and bite us again - if left alive to gather his numbers and resolve: APOCALYPSE NOW COL. KURTZ MONOLOGUE ( http://youtu.be/QcrcF4ERGxo )
Well stated, Longbow. When the ideology clash is freedom vs. slavery, it makes the choice quite a bit more clear.
160 million. Half the country.
wildbill
Anonymous said it best and in the traditions of historical Americans;
"My ultimate gov't is....Me"
As a caveat and to explain the absurd state government has reached, I refer you to this vid of a human trying to explain "government" to an alien.
http://sfmedic.blogspot.com/2012/03/government-explained-to-alien.html
Col Kurtz as the moral standard? Not even, if he is the std. for the level of morality when it comes to killing, then what bonafide basis did he have for cutting off 'chefs' head? The answer: none, he murdered him for no good reason. Simply because he gave a nice speech on some of the hypocrisy of our society doesn't excuse that. Moral standards apply at all times, regardless.
Killing to defend your private property rights:(this is the correct definition of freedom) is not the same as murder such as Kurtz committed.
AM has asked a damned good question because this is a perilous moral hazard. Collectivists of any stripe always murder anyone who doesn't think or believe as they do. If we choose to do as such to others simply because they don't believe as we do, ie: in the concepts of freedom (or more correctly private property rights) and self-determination, then we are in danger of becoming the very thing we fight against.
Where is the line to be drawn?
To borrow a quote "live & let live" might be the proper dividing line. To expand that: simply because a collectivist believes differently than us, fine go your way and do your own thing. However...the moment they choose to act in whatever fashion to empower themselves over others at others expense, then they have chosen thier path and whatever the result is thier responsibility. That I hope is the correct line of demarcation, others can believe as they choose, freedom is a two-way street. Until such point as they choose to attempt to force others or otherwise act in such fashion. Be it directly or indirectly, via the color of law and/or a perversion of the concept of government.
Good question AM & good thinking.
Best,
Wil.
You already know where I will start when the time comes. I do not expect to finish with them before I am eliminated, but hopefully I'll reduce their numbers sufficiently to let others of you have better success.
I ran this gendanken once. Given system fragility and such I'd guessed that 100 million would end up dead plus whatever global costs were applied do to system collapse. Definitely not worth it at the current time.
Keep in mind I am kind of a reactionary Conservative with populist economic and Libertarian leanings so its hard to say who else agrees with me politically.
Now if I was allowed to have my own State and people who wanted to live their under those terms peacefully it could be 0 people hurt but the Left is never satisfied and the Right just as bad being addicted to power. Just as Lincoln could never have let the Confederacy go, its unlikely .gov would do so either.
@Nubbin-Finger: "The Communist seem to have no problem finding willing executioners (Katyn Forest, the Soviet Gulags, the Ukrainian Holodor, the Killing Field of China and Cambodia). Where do communists find so many men so eager and willing to pull the trigger to enforce their Ideas"
Actually, the number of killers is usually surprisingly small. Katyn was primarily the work of one man - Vasili Blokhin. One of the biggest mass-shootings of Jews in WWII (Rumbuli Forest) used only 6 gunmen to kill 25,000 - one bullet each. The Gulags (and Nazi death camps) had very small guard units. The only time any real numbers are need is the initial round-up and transportation, and that's usually not hard to staff, either. If nothing else, they just allow their troops/police/auxiliaries to plunder the victims'. Swag is sufficient for many, many people to either turn murderous, or at least turn a blind eye to it.
I am going to cross post this from Western Rifle Shooters with apologies
The answer for all would be violent revolutionaries is "Your neighbors sweet nine year old kid" because once a war like that starts as much as you prefer to be left alone or to not have to govern and to play square thats not going happen.
The patriot movement doesn't have the legitimacy to govern any more than about I don't know, two or three states, tops.
In the end since you can't persuade all those hungry, angry people now without hope who've lost friends, family and the future they wanted you\ll kill
You'll behave exactly like Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot and all the other nasties because its the only way that works
. This is doubly true for political movements whose goal is eliminating government. All those people left out, not paid off can only be controlled through fear and when that fails since they have little to lose, the "freedom" movement will have end up acting exactly the same as the totalitarians.
Within a very short period of time, knowing your outnumbered probably 3-1 or more (figure the 3% patriot movement will triple to 10%, the US left is about 100 million) minimum you'll either end up looting political enemies to pay your men (most of the new converts will be opportunists ) or resorting to war crimes, collective punishment, mass extermination, mass starvation all that . Your friends will piloting the Sobibor express in no time.
On top of that you have to kill ALL of the Op-For and their social network, kids, school teachers etc because if you don't they'll either mole in or or you just expel them, they'll be back with an army of Mercs.
So yeah, have a look at the diary of Anne Frank or a picture of Natasha Romanov if you prefer, thats your target
For better option I think is if some middle ground can't be reached is to manage a peaceful separation. The USSR managed it and they were far more totalitarian than we are.
If that fails, be aware you can "win" but still lose.
To quote W. S. Gilbert (of Gilbert and Sullivan fame):
When some day it may happen
That a victim must be found
I've got a little list,
I've got a little list....
-Rurik
Wil said: (@April 25, 2012 11:02 AM)
"However...the moment they choose to act in whatever fashion to empower themselves over others at others expense, then they have chosen thier path and whatever the result is thier responsibility. That I hope is the correct line of demarcation..."
Sorry, Wil, but that line was crossed so long ago that maybe you don't remember it.
The evidence that "they" are already coercing, fleecing, determining, bossing, threatening, imprisoning, killing and,in short, enslaving us one and all is abundant all around you.
The line has been crossed. The die is cast. "They" and we will pay the butcher's bill.
The numbers will be quite small.
The Enemies of Liberty will never permit you to separate in peace.
It did not happen in the USSR, that is a facade and the power center for Eastern Europe is still the Kremlin. Golitsyn.
The struggle is simple: Liberty or Slavery. Keep to those terms and the rest gets easy.
They may: STFU, leave, or face charges of Treason for having participated in the enslavement of their Countrymen. Such trials are in the scope of Safety Committees.
Kerodin
III
Damn hard question. I know many liberals and consider some close friends. Fortunately most are too old or fat to man the proverbial or literal barricades. Still, I may look down my scope and see a face I know on the other side. May God forgive me but I believe I'm capable of pulling the trigger on them.
How MANY will I kill? Flip answer: as many as possible before they get me. Hard answer: as many as needed to make sure the cost of saying "I'm a socialist/communist/Liberal" is a sure death sentence.
If Al Gore came out today and announced "I am wrong and I am sorry! New research has come to light and..." etc it'd make no difference to the New Age/"Gaian" (fkn SPIRITUALIST) fanatics & radical leftists who've latched onto this AGW/CC bullshit story: A fanatic's wet dream is absolute power.
My loyalty is with "the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic". Period! End of story.
If that makes me a "terrorist" or "belligerent", that beats hell out of being a TRAITOR, any day & twice on Sunday!
The penalty for Treason is death.
After a fair and speedy trial, I would kill every traitor in Sodom-on-the-Potomac.
Otherwise, I would kill any and all Enemies - foreign or domestic - of our Republic, those who would violate our Constitution and enslave us and our posterity.
Nonetheless, I continue to pray that He will help us to open their minds so that it does not become necessary to open their heads.
God help us - and GOD SAVE OUR REPUBLIC!.
Having now read the other replies, i need to add a couple of things...
First, those who speak of "if they try to enslave me or mine..." need to wAKE UP!!
Money and property are *LIFE* made tangible! Everything I have was earned at the cost of days I can NEVER recover.
If you take what I have, you have robbed me of those days - *AND* of the days I must AGAIN sacrifice to replace what you stole!
*IF* they decide to enslave us?? They've ALREADY DONE IT!! THEY ALREADY TAKE ~40% OF EVERY YEAR WE LIVE AND WORK!!
As to the rest, I think I should add this:
"A Rifleman’s Prayer
Oh Lord, I would live my life in freedom, peace and happiness, enjoying the simple pleasures of hearth and home. I would die an old, old man in my own bed, preferably of sexual overexertion.
But if that is not to be, Lord, if monsters such as this should find their way to my little corner of the world on my watch, then help me to sweep those bastards from the ramparts, because doing that is good, and right, and just.
And if in this I should fall, let me be found atop a pile of brass, behind the wall I made of their corpses."
I've come to realize more and more often of late, that *IF* it finally comes to this in our Republic, that THIS IS THE END FOR WHICH I AM PRAYING.
Though I'd still prefer the "old-old man in my oWn bed..." route, I guess I may not have any REAL choice!
"Only by looking at reality through the hard facts of history will we come to the understanding that, for a time, we will need men of steel (Our Col. Kurtzs) who are willing to do what must be done (grizzle work, indeed) to ensure that the 'problem' will not resurface and need to be purged again in only 30 or 40 years hence."
Argentina tried that approach. Now, 30 or 40 years later, here we are again...
The Communists tried that approach, too, with more vigor. Result? Now a bunch of center-right governments in Eastern Europe.
Ideological genocide doesn't appear to work, if the goal is stable ascendancy in a democratic framework.
Now, in a civil war, yes, lots of people will be killed for their beliefs. Especially since this one would resemble Iraq and Afghanistan more than Grant vs. Lee.
But history suggests that taking a step beyond to organized ideological genocide isn't really going to solve the problem, if the goal is to revert to free government afterward.
The goal isn't to revert to a "free government" so much as to understand the cost of changing the existing form of government.
Personally I'm all for a Republic, with a much more limited franchise.
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